So, um, “dude,” yes, I do believe there’s an analogy between an unconsummated threat of violence (the brandishing of a loaded gun) and an unconsummated offer of sexuality (the brandishing of a female body in states of significant undress). Both cases result in predictable reactions, instilling justified fear in the first case and justified desire in the second.
And as for going mushy in the head, how do you manage to deal with clients and co-workers who expose their head hair, faces, lower arms, and occasional calves to you? Do you react with “catcalls, reciprocal flirting, touches, advances, attempted pick-ups and more”?
Obviously, you’re trying to draw on an absurd example. The exposure of “head[,] hair, faces, lower arms, and occasional calves” is not, in our culture, as provocative as the exposure of thighs, buttocks and breasts. (How we perceive things like this can change over time, of course, but right now, it is what it is.) Personally, I do not respond with “catcalls, reciprocal flirting, touches, advances, attempted pick-ups and more” to any of these things. I have never even come close to sexually harassing anyone. But that’s just me. My point is that I would not criticize other guys for responding in that fashion to such provocations. This is part of why workplaces often have explicit or implicit dress codes that prevent both women and men from showing up dressed down to that extent.
And let’s remember what the rationalization is for Islamic women’s dress (which comes in various levels of concealment, by the way). Men enforce it because they believe that seeing head hair, etc. will make them go mushy in the head, and women insist on it because they don’t want to put up with men’s catcalls and more if they bare anything but their hands. Somehow, Western men manage to do work and walk the streets without being compelled by the sight of women “dressed to inspire lust” (as conservative Muslims call Western women’s wear) all around them to attack those women.
That’s correct, and as I said, what is or isn’t thought of as provocative is, to some extent, culturally determined, though I suspect naked or nearly naked women walking around would be seen as provocative to men in virtually all cultures and in virtually all times and places, and though men can be compelled by law or strictly enforced religious or cultural norms to look away or not to respond in any way to such provocations, this would probably be sort of like asking men not to get turned on when a woman (or another man in the case of gay men) is trying to turn them on. In other words, it’s possible, but it kind of flies in the face of our evolutionary/biological imperatives, so it’s not at all natural or easy. More importantly, my point is that while such things may be culturally determined to some extent, at this point in our culture, women walking along the street in significant states of undress is provocative, so asking men not to respond to that in any way is unfair. And I’m not sure we’d even want to get to the point when it’s not seen as provocative. Both most women and most men generally enjoy the fact that women’s displays of their bodies has the potential to entice, incite and provoke.
You write “ most of us men actually seem to enjoy socializing with other men more than with women”. Why is that, anyway? I’ve never understood it. My close friends have been women throughout my life, and my wife is my closest friend. Women just seem to be more interesting as people: not all, of course, but on average more than men. Maybe you don’t think so, but then again maybe I don’t agree with your “beautiful” vs. “ugly” pictures either. Each to his or her own taste.
Yes, everyone has his or her own taste about these things, and I’ve personally enjoyed socializing both with women and with men. I’m not big into the typical kinds of macho “male bonding” activities — going to watch sports, pub crawls, hunting trips, etc. — but most men seem to enjoy these kinds of activities. Personally, however, I enjoy discussing subjects such as philosophy, literature and politics with my friends, and for whatever reason, I find that men are just more interested than women in these topics. It’s likely just a result of socialization more than anything else, but it is what it is. My point is just that, for whatever combination of reasons, when you take the whole sexual dynamic out of the picture, most men do seem to like socializing with other men more than they enjoy socializing with women. And, along the same lines, you don’t personally have to agree with my images of what is “beautiful” and what is “ugly,” but most guys would agree, and that’s all I’m really saying. My argument is based on commonly held perceptions and what follows from those perceptions.
And by the way, your first picture of women dressed in black are all smiling. In your second picture, they aren’t. That should tell you something.
Okay, here you go:
Does that really change anything? Our perception of Muslim women as “oppressed” is a perception made from the standpoint of Western values, of course. Some Muslim women may feel oppressed, and others may feel they’re fulfilling an important role in society by dressing and acting the way they do. But I’m speaking primarily about Western women from the standpoint of Western values. What I’m saying is that from our own vantage point, we’re becoming a schizophrenic society that is ever-more explicitly sexualized on the one hand and ever more restrictively puritan and repressive on the other hand. The #MeToo perspective on sexual relations bears an uncomfortable resemblance to the state of such relations in what we would perceive as oppressive theocracies.
And, by the way, in case you think my perspective is just some reflection of retrograde patriarchal conservatism, here is an open letter from a bunch of famous French writers, performers, academics and businesswomen that came out today on the subject and which has a very similar message to the one I’m trying to convey:
